Best-selling author Jason Reynolds writes the Y.A. books he never had

Jason Reynolds  00:00

I like writing for kids because kids still believe that the world could be whatever they want the world to be. I'd much rather write about that than write about a jaded old man who knows the world will never change.

Sophie Bearman  00:23

This is Life in Seven Songs from the San Francisco Standard. I'm Sophie Bearman. This week, I'm joined by Jason Reynolds, a New York Times best-selling author, MacArthur Genius fellow, and one of the most influential voices in young adult literature today. The Library of Congress said so, too, when it named him the National Ambassador for Young People's Literature in 2020. If you've read Jason's books — and you may have, because a lot of adults read them as well — you know they don't sugarcoat reality. His novels center young people of color, tackling the weight of family trauma, gun violence, racism, and grief, but always with a pulse of hope, humor, and love for community. Many of these stories pull from Jason's own childhood, growing up Black in the DC area, absorbing the music and street corners that shaped him. Today, Jason is on the road constantly, visiting schools around the country, telling young people that their stories matter, that literature is theirs too. Jason Reynolds, welcome to the show. 

Jason Reynolds  01:27

Thank you for having me.

Sophie Bearman  01:29

I want to start by quoting something you said about your books in an interview a few years ago. You said, 'All I want kids to know is that I see them for who they are and not who everyone thinks they are, and putting that on the page with integrity and balance to acknowledge the glory and the brokenness. It's a lot, but so are they.' Did you have any books that did that for you as a kid? 

Jason Reynolds  01:52

No. You know, I wish I did. No, I didn't read much at all as a kid because I didn't feel connected or drawn to any of the stories. It was different time, you know, and I was looking for the details of my life, which just weren't available in books back then. I turned to the music. Music is what did it for me, you know, Latifah and all the rappers of my time. I would read those lyrics, and that's where I found my, myself. That those were my stories.

Sophie Bearman  02:24

Your first song, Queen Latifah's U.N.I.T.Y.: tell me about discovering that song and how it affected you.

Jason Reynolds  02:32

You know, you always remember your first, you know. It was the, it was the first album I was able to buy with my own money. And so I had, I have an older brother, and he was a big music guy, too, and just, you know, I would put my ear to the wall to listen to him, his stereo. He's playing Das EFX, and he's playing N.W.A and he's playing KRS-One, and all the old Dancehall stuff. And my mom, of course, is banging on the door, you know, like that — 

Sophie Bearman  03:02

'Turn it down!' 

Jason Reynolds  03:03

That was my house. 'It's just too much,' you know. But he also was a big brother, which meant that I was not allowed to partake. And so I remember saving up my money and walking down to a Sam Goody, which was a music store, and going in there and buying Queen Latifah's Black Reign. And feeling so empowered because I had my own. This belonged to me. And I remember getting home, ripping off the plastic and popping it into my Walkman and unfolding the liner notes and just being blown away by seeing the words. Because it never dawned on me before that, that like these words were written down. But to see the way that Latifah is bending language, to see sort of the slang. You know, like, when does one, at that age, think about what a slang word — how a slang word is spelled, what it might look like written down? And to see that was mind blowing for me, like, 'Maybe I could write this. Maybe I could bend and manipulate language. Maybe I could use my slang as a valid function of communication.' It changed everything.

Music  04:27

[U.N.I.T.Y by Queen Latifah plays]

Jason Reynolds  04:31

You know what else it is? Is that Latifah was also bold and brash and confident. I always tell the kids today, I'm like, 'Y'all don't understand that everybody loved Queen Latifah, not just girls, but women. Everybody understood that Queen Latifah was a force. And when she said it, she meant it, and we all believe she meant it.' If she say, 'Don't be calling me out my name,' then one has to then say, 'Maybe I should change the way I'm speaking about the women in my life.' It really was that powerful. It really was that potent, and she really was making a big statement. And she's young. She might not have even been 20 years old.

Sophie Bearman  05:17

You mentioned the liner notes, looking at the lyrics, and that inspired you to think about poetry. Do you remember the first poem or one of the first poems that you ever wrote?

Jason Reynolds  05:28

I don't remember the words of it. I remember what it was for because it was the same year. So the same year that I discovered Queen Latifah lyrics — this is the same year that I lose my grandmother, and I'm dealing with death for the first time, I'm 10 years old — and I remember my mother crying. I don't remember what it sounded like, but I still can recall what it felt like in my body to hear my mother weeping: the sort of chemical rearrangement of your giant being made small by the weight of death. And I wanted to figure out a way to make her feel better. That has always been a thing. It's like, 'Let me figure out if I can solve the problem.' I'm being therapized out of that, by the way, at this age, you know, working through those things. 

Sophie Bearman  06:09

Not always having to fix everything? 

Jason Reynolds  06:11

Exactly. But at that age, you know, it's like, 'It's my mom. This is my hero.' And so I wrote a couple of lines down, my first time ever doing that, and I gave it to her, and she printed it on the funeral program. And so then the whole family got to see it and read it, and everyone came up to me afterwards and let me know how they felt about it. And as a 10 year old kid, that's when you realize there's power. Because all you really want is power. And it changed my life.

Sophie Bearman  06:40

Tell me a little bit about your mom. I know that she's really important to you. You even have a podcast about her and her amazingness, essentially. I was just listening this morning. So tell me a little bit about your mom.

Jason Reynolds  06:51

My mother is a — is now 79, almost 80 years old. She's a woman born in South Carolina, in rural South Carolina, in the 40s. She was the first to get a college degree in the family. She was the first to own a home in the family. She was basically the first to sort of change the trajectory of what our family could be. We were farmers. We come from country folk. And she went and she worked in a mail room when she was 15 years old. She went to the March on Washington that same year. She heard Dr. King speak, and knew for a fact that she would not stay in that mail room. And she stayed at that job, and worked her way up to the corner office where she was an executive leading people who did not want to be led by her. And she couldn't care less. And she made it happen. Had it — had the children raised us to believe that there was nothing we could not do, that there was no building that we did not belong in. There was no state that we did not belong in. There was no neighborhood that we did not like. We, we belong everywhere we were. I was raised to carry, carry a big stick, to walk with a heavy foot. I was raised that way. Like, I was raised to make sure the world knew that I was here and, and I've done that to honor the limitations that that were pressed upon my mother that she broke through anyway. Now, I don't feel the limitations at all. I never — they might be there, I just don't know them very well. I pay no attention to them.

Sophie Bearman  08:10

There were four words that your mom had you say every night before bed. What were those?

Jason Reynolds  08:16

'I can do anything.' And it's weird the way language — much like music — it's weird, the way language can live in the body. The way it can calcify in the mind. I don't know what it is to believe that I can't do something, and that has gotten me in trouble many times. You know, like it —

Sophie Bearman  08:38

Sure. 

Jason Reynolds  08:38

It does. It comes at a cost. At the same time, it has propelled me to the life of my dreams.

Sophie Bearman  08:43

You have a song on your list that touches on your mom's side of the family, I believe, and your family's southern roots. It's Soul Food by Goodie Mob. What speaks to you in this song?

Jason Reynolds  08:54

This was my first CD. So now we're graduating from tape to CD. It was the first time I'd heard a rap song that depicted the southern sensibilities of my family, it's about like texture and the richness of the Black American South.

Music  09:14

[Soul Food by Goodie Mob plays]

Jason Reynolds  09:32

Great. They're also critiquing fast food and the accessibility, the over accessibility of fast food, right? And it's like, 'Yo, like, this bullshit is affordable.' It's so easy for me to go and, like, get some nonsense, but what I really need, though? I need Grandma's cooking. And the truth is, Grandma's cooking is gonna kill me at the same rate as this fast food. But Grandma's cooking at least comes with a helping of love. There's spirit here. And there's something — and that is the Black American experience as it pertains to our food. This food is meant — like Soul Food is meant to fill the well, right? What we did not know is that this food was also damaging us physically. We could transpose that very thing into the discipline inside of some of our homes, right? Where you hear there's a famous adage in our community that says, 'I have to beat you in here so they don't kill you out there.' And that might sound very, very harsh to particular ears, but for kids like us, it's like, 'yeah.' Like, that is the complexity of so many of our lives.

Sophie Bearman  10:34

This idea of protecting your kids by disciplining them in the house. Did you grow up like that? Like, did you have to go out looking a certain way? Or was she worried about your safety?

Jason Reynolds  10:45

Yeah, of course. I mean, my mother was always about, 'Listen, present yourself. You've already got — there are strikes against you.' And so, she was always concerned about, 'Is your hair brushed? Are your shoes clean? Are your clothes clean? Have they been pressed and ironed? You know, are you speaking a particular way?' But then at the flip side, my mother never stopped me from being myself when I rebelled against all of that. So when I was like, 'I'm not — I'm growing my hair. I'm wearing all kind of cooky' — I was a bohemian kid, an art kid, so I'm wearing all kinds of crazy. And she was like, 'You know what? If that's how you want to express yourself, be safe. Just be safe.' I think she struggled with it, but ultimately, always allowed me to be me at all costs.

Sophie Bearman  11:24

Speaking of rebellion, your next song is Tracy Chapman's Talkin' Bout a Revolution. 

Jason Reynolds  11:26

Yeah. 

Sophie Bearman  11:27

What memory does this bring up for you?

Jason Reynolds  11:32

My father. My father, who has passed on. You know, I give a lot of praise to my mother because of the way that she raised us. I don't talk a lot about my father and how he was the most interesting man in the world. This man who was from the sticks of Maryland, way down to Southern Maryland, down in the Patuxent River, a dirt road kid with a bunch of siblings, I think it's seven or eight of them. This is a man that, in the 1970s, tattoos his body up, which was not a thing for Black men back then. Back then, you know, tattoos were for sailors, gangsters and skinheads, right? My father was none of those things, but was covered in tattoos. He's a biker. He's a motorcycle man. He was close to the Hells Angels, which was strange, because they weren't really keen on Black folk, but they loved my father because my father had bikes that they loved and was it was a good mechanic. And did them favors when it came to their divorces, because my dad later on worked in divorce mediation and made sure they got to see their kids. So they all loved my dad. So he was, he was covered in tattoos, full beard, lots of hair on his head, gold chains around his neck, gold watches, T-shirts and tight jeans and boots. And what came along with this was was an eclectic musical taste, Zeppelin and the Beatles and Bob Marley and Hendrix. So he was — he and I would get in the car in the morning, and we would sing at the top of our lungs, but I would mess up the words, and he would let me mess up the words, or like My Sharona. I love, I love My Sharona. But my father told me that he was saying My Scrotum. Mind you, I don't know what a scrotum is, right? And so my dad what — he loved, he was that kind of, like, dad. 

Sophie Bearman  13:11

That's funny. 

Jason Reynolds  13:12

And so he loved, sort of like changing the words and, you know, I would sing these songs. But he also loved Tracy Chapman. He loved the 1988 that self-titled, the first one. And he would play it whenever he was cutting my head, whenever he's cutting me and my older brother's hair. He was a terrible barber, by the way. He was, he was a wonderful person. He was a terrible barber. 

Sophie Bearman  13:34

Oh no. 

Jason Reynolds  13:35

But, you know, he was there, so we had to do it. And so whenever he was butchering our heads, he would play that album. I will always think of him when I hear Tracy Chapman's voice.

Music  13:50

[Talkin' Bout a Revolution by Tracy Chapman plays]

Jason Reynolds  14:09

This is an anti capitalist song, basically. This is a song that says, like, 'at some point things are going to have to change.' She's saying, 'I'm talking about a revolution that sounds like a whisper.' But she whispers that part, and so most people just miss it. It's like a breathy like 'it sounds like a whisper.' And I think that's the part that I think most people overlook about this song. I mean, in today's time, what we're going through right now, it's easy for us to fall into a state of hopelessness, where we believe that nothing is changing. Something is always changing. Something is always changing, and it's always bending in ways — and usually it's bending for the better, in ways that we can't always see. But sometimes it's about like, 'are we having important conversations? Are we helping our neighbors? Are we loving our children?' Sometimes the revolution sounds like a whisper.

Sophie Bearman  14:36

I know that when you were about 10 years old, your parents split up. How did the divorce impact to you?

Jason Reynolds  15:00

Oh, it was devastating. I mean, imagine everything we've been talking about, all of this, take place in the same year. So think about like, Queen Latifah, my grandma's death. This is all my 10th year of life. 

Sophie Bearman  15:09

That is a lot in one year. 

Jason Reynolds  15:11

Yeah, this is all being this is all happening in that same, at that same time. And my parents splitting up? It was, you know, I see it differently now, but at the time, you feel like you've been lied to. Because my parents did a really good — they were never, ever, ever unhappy in front of the children. I had no idea any of this was happening. And my, you know, my dad told me, my dad was outside fixing the car and just kind of sprung it on me, and was like, 'Look, I gotta, there's some things, I gotta go. And there's some things that are going to change, you know?' And I hated him for a long time. I think, when you're when you're a kid, and you don't know the inner workings of your parents' relationship, the person who leaves is the villain. Whoever, whoever is the leaver of the house. As a kid, you're like, 'That person is the lever of the space, and therefore that is the person that I have to blame for this.' And I get —

Sophie Bearman  16:13

As we grow older, it's like, maybe that's — it's more complicated. 

Jason Reynolds  16:16

It's way more complicated. And I got older, and, you know, I think we were beefing until I was 25. It's 15 years. And when I got older, and we sat down and had lunch one day, and we talked about it all so differently, and it sounded so different, all of a sudden. It was like — because I was older, and I could hear it differently. And then I realized that my dad and my mom, that they were — I mean, I'm older than my parents were when they were going through all these things. And I'm like, 'I still feel like a baby now.' And I appreciate them both for doing the best they could, and they remained friends. My parents were very close until the day my dad died, and I got to see that model for me that like, 'Oh, you don't — you can really love a person even if the context changes.'

Sophie Bearman  17:00

We're, we're talking about love. You chose the song by Bob Marley, Is This Love. What are your memories of listening to this one?

Jason Reynolds  17:09

Because I lived in this sort of musical household, we had this turntable. It was downstairs. My parents used to have parties all the time. So I grew up in the fun house, right? Like it was crazy. And so when your parents have parties all the time, there's — my dad was so proud of his, like, stereo. This is the '80s and the early '90s when, like, you had tube speakers, you know, floor model speakers, and you had a receiver and a controller and amplifiers, and, like, you had the stack, right? And at the top of the stack is the turntable. And I just remember being a kid and my dad sort of choosing records and so forth and so on. And then they split, and he left all that stuff there. And around 13, I discovered all those records in the, in the garage. And the turntable was still there, but it was it's a belt-drive turntable, and so the belt — which is basically a rubber band — was disintegrated by the moisture of the basement. So it didn't work. It didn't turn. And I remember picking that record — I loved Bob Marley — picking that record, the Kaya record, and putting it on a turntable and just turning it with my hand. Like, spinning it with my finger. And so it would be warped. It was a — you know, it was all sounded like, 'wah yee woah.' But I could still spin it enough to hear him singing that song, Is This Love. And, and then I took the vinyl, and you read the words, right? I've always done that. I want to see what he's saying, especially since, in this particular case, it's warped anyway. To read those words, it felt so poetic and so — you know? It's like, 'This is what I wanted,' at that age, you know. And what I would get a few times over as I got older, right? It's like, 'Look, we don't have much, but we have this, you know. But we have this.' 

Music  19:16

[Is This Love by Bob Marley plays]

Jason Reynolds  19:20

I mean, like, what's not to love? First of all, Bob Marley is so sexy. Like, there's a sexiness to all of that, right? Like, I want to love you. 'Is this love? Is this love? Is this love that I'm feeling.' Man, there's something about that — I mean, I think of my parents' story. My mother met my father. He had nothing. He came as a single father of two, with nothing. His house was foreclosed on. And they were able to sort of glue themselves together in a particular way. And I just, I don't know, I value that. It's a beautiful thing to think about.

Sophie Bearman  19:58

When we come back, we'll hear the song that gave Jason the confidence to take a leap. Stay with us.

Sophie Bearman  20:25

Another song that inspired you was Luchini by Camp Lo. So I'm actually going to play a little bit of this one, and then, and then we'll talk about it.

Music  20:51

[Luchini by Camp Lo plays]

Jason Reynolds  20:54

Masterpiece.

Sophie Bearman  20:55

You said in an email that the song gave you permission to use language as paint.

Jason Reynolds  21:00

Yeah, they understood the value of, like, a coded language. Their music is about robbery, so they fashioned themselves as diamond thieves. But the way that they're talking about it is all sort of like this clandestine language. It's like, 'No, we have a code. We know what we're saying.' And they had this way of talking and rapping that felt so poetic, and you had to sort of decipher. It was like deciphering a code, right? So, like the chorus, 'This is it, what / Luchini pouring from the sky.' Luchini was another word for money. 

Sophie Bearman  21:31

Okay, okay.

Jason Reynolds  21:31

That's, that requires — to me, these guys are geniuses. And this came out in 1995. '95, and I'm still listening to this record, picking it apart to figure out, like, 'Now, do I understand it? Do I get it now?' It's amazing.

Sophie Bearman  21:48

So I'm curious, give an example of what that looks like on the page, like, that you've done. How have you done that?

Jason Reynolds  21:53

They could be the weight of the font. Like, I can change the weight of the font in these stories. I can go all caps. I can I can thicken the words if I want. I can change the kerning of the words and space them out differently. I can break the line and create enjambment in the middle of a piece of prose, as if it's poetry, just to shake the reader and to keep them hooked in. All of those things matter. And I learned that through poetry, and I learned that through music.

Sophie Bearman  22:16

So it's around this time, 17 or 18 years old, that you actually read a book start to finish.

Jason Reynolds  22:21

Yeah. 

Sophie Bearman  22:21

So what was that first book? And why was that the book that hit a chord with you?

Jason Reynolds  22:27

It was Black Boy by Richard Wright. And it struck a chord. I mean, it's just this amazing sort of memoir of a young Richard Wright who's making his way as a Black kid in Mississippi in America, right? Like and it's great, arguably one of the greatest books ever made. Now, if you're a kid who's growing up listening to rap music, and you're a kid who's watching television, then reading becomes the only storytelling medium that makes the reader wait for the good parts, right? It's like you're gonna have to get through 50 pages of exposition, 60 pages of exposition. Whereas in a rap song, either you want to start with the chorus or you gonna go 30 seconds and then come into the chorus, but that's all I really have to wait for. And if it's a TV show, it's only 30 minutes long. And then books, I gotta wait a week until something interesting takes place. And in this book, it got me because of the second page. He sets the curtains on fire and burns his grandmother's house down. 

Sophie Bearman  23:25

Sucked you in. 

Jason Reynolds  23:25

That's all I needed.

Sophie Bearman  23:26

So after high school, you attend the University of Maryland and end up pursuing a degree in English. And you said that your next song captures the feelings that you were having as you thought about, I guess, chasing your dream. It's Vienna by Billy Joel.

Jason Reynolds  23:42

This is the dreamer's anthem. This is it. This is the song that says, 'Don't be afraid to go get it.' Vienna waits for you, right? And my Vienna was New York City. And, had I not taken the chance to go there and chase this dream? What a waste. This is a whole — this is a completely different life, you know. So that song, it means the world to me.

Music  24:12

[Vienna by Billy Joel plays]

Jason Reynolds  24:19

I love it so much. It's funny. It makes me think of my father too, because I also think it challenges the notion that you'll run out of time. It's like when I was 27 I remember coming home and seeing my father. And he said, 'What's the matter?' And I said, 'I'm 27 years old, and I have nothing to show for it.' Now, mind you, I'd already had a book deal. Had a book out. I'm 27 years old, and I'm just not where I want to be. And I remember him saying, 'Well, I didn't choose a life path until I was 35.' And, and he said, 'Well, do you want to take another leap at something? I'm like, 'I think I want to' — because at the time I wasn't writing anymore — 'I want to write another book.' And he's like, 'Well, you should write another book.' And I was like, 'Yeah, but what if I fail?' And he said, 'What if you fail?' And I said, 'What if I fail?' And he said, 'Yeah, what if you fail?' And I said, 'Well, you should answer the question.' He said, 'I don't know if I understand the question.'

Sophie Bearman  25:24

Poetry. 

Jason Reynolds  25:27

And then he said, 'Okay, okay, let's just walk it — let's talk it through. What happens if you fail?' And I said, 'I mean, I guess I'll just have to, like, pick it all up and start over.' He's like, 'Yeah, that's the worst that could happen. That's as bad as it could get. So go get it.' So go get it, right? There's a balance there, because in Vienna, he's saying, like, 'Yo, look, you're not going to get all of this done in a day.' But he's also challenging this, this the person he's speaking to. He says, 'Look, if you're so smart, why are you still so afraid, right?' If you're, if — 'Since you know everything, since you're such a you're big and bad, you know, juvenile, right? Why are you so afraid? Like, look, it's — you can slow down. It's okay. And also, you do have to go get it, though. You can't be afraid to go get it, in the same way you can't be afraid to take a break. Both of these things are necessary for you.' And I think for me, like that song, every time — I remember my best buddy. And one time, we were in Arizona, and I was with his father. His father was probably 65 at the time. And we're sitting in the car and we're playing this song, and both of us are weeping. And I was probably 26, 27. And the reality of that moment is that we're having two very different experiences. Mine is on the precipice of a dream. And his, the older man, was on the acknowledgement and the acceptance of a dream deferred. And that is the power of that song. The sweet spot is to know when it is time to be brave and when it's okay for you to say, 'Slow down.'

Sophie Bearman  27:05

You were told as a kid, and you said to yourself, 'I can do anything.' Was this the first and only time — this story you described with your dad — where you actually questioned yourself?

Jason Reynolds  27:16

No, most of my 20s, I was pretty much kind of nervous about 'Could I really do this? I got bills. I got to pay my rent. I've got my credit is ruined, my — the bank is overdrawn, right? I'm going — I'm going to work every day. I'm trying to figure this out.' So, of course, there were moments. And then, you know, you check in with your dad, and your dad reminds you who you are, right? You check in with your mother. My mother was the one who told me, 'Hey, I think it might be time for you to quit your job.' My mother would have never told me to quit a job because she was a working woman who believed in work and believed in taking care of yourself. But she could see the atrophy coming, and was like, 'Hey, I think it's time for you to, like, take a, take a big swing, go — let's go, let's go see.'

Sophie Bearman  27:54

And the next book you write, it's a hit. And from there, we're kind of off, right? 

Jason Reynolds  27:58

That's it. 

Sophie Bearman  28:00

So you write books, novels for middle schoolers, high schoolers. Jason, why youth? Why kids?

Jason Reynolds  28:09

Why not? I mean, look, first of all, let me say this. I write for everybody. And so, so the first thing I would say is that, like, 80% of my readers are probably adults, which is interesting, and it's —

Sophie Bearman  28:18

Like, it's like parents reading it to kids, or just adults reading it?

Jason Reynolds  28:21

80% of the YA genre is adults. Like, it's adults buying these books, because it does do away with some of the pretense. That being said, I like writing for kids because kids are still interesting enough to believe that the world could be whatever they want the world to be. I'd much rather write about that than write about a jaded old man who knows the world will never change, right? I mean, adults write about what, work and adultery? Like all of us, all the stories for adults, literally, is about murder, work, adultery. And usually all three of those take place in the same, the same — like, that's it, right? It's like, I don't...

Sophie Bearman  28:58

Why do we do this to ourselves?

Jason Reynolds  29:00

Why do I need — and it's like I also am an adult who lives as an adult who knows how much of a drag it is to be an adult most of the time. I don't know if I'm interested in like — and I have some adult stuff that's written and that's coming. So like, cool, right? But none of that could ever hold up to a first kiss. None of that could ever hold up to like the wildness of losing your virginity. Or what it is to experience the first day of school. Seems so simple, but like, that's like a wild experience. The first day of school? You come back to school and you're like, 'Y'all see Jerome? Jerome got a beard. That's so strange.' yes.

Sophie Bearman  29:41

Or even on the, on the sort of sadder side, you know, the first time you lose someone at age 10.

Jason Reynolds  29:47

Exactly, exactly. Or when your friends get — I mean, shoot, I was 15, 14, 15, my friends got pregnant. That's like, and you're like, 'Whoa. What is happening? How does this — what's gonna happen to them?  What does this mean?' We have tons of books about young people that are categorized as adult novels. I mean, The Color Purple is a prime example. The Bluest Eye is a prime example. To Kill a Mockingbird. So we know that it's not actually about the child protagonist. It's simply about the tone of the tale. Which means that those people understood that, like, young life is something that should be examined.

Sophie Bearman  30:10

This is quite personal, but do you ever want to be a parent? 

Jason Reynolds  30:25

No. No, no, no. I, you know, I, I love kids. I dedicated my life to kids, but I don't see myself ever being a parent just because, just because I like my life. Like, like I just... to be honest with you, I, my life feels — at the moment, you know, life is long, who knows, but at the moment — I feel so fulfilled that I... I'm, I like coming home to my empty house. I like being around all those kids and being fulfilled and to give them everything that I can, then to leave them where they are.

Sophie Bearman  31:01

Your very last song brings us back to childhood memories, including your father. It's Clarence Carter's Patches.

Jason Reynolds  31:09

Yeah, I feel like no one knows this song. It's a weird sort of, like, B-side that no one knows. Everybody knows Clarence Carter for making really nasty songs, right? Like Strokin', and these like, really wild, sexually explicit songs. And then there's Patches, and my father played this for me when I was younger. And I think when my father died, this song means something different to me because of the way my father spoke to me during his last days, and the setting forth the expectations he had in me and my responsibility for this family, right? What it is that he needed me to carry out for him, since he was no longer going to be here. And Patches sort of takes me to that place, like 'I'm depending on you, kid, to do this.'

Music  31:55

[Patches by Clarence Carter plays]

Jason Reynolds  32:11

I think that's — that's how I feel. That's what he said. You know what I mean? 

Sophie Bearman  32:16

Pretty clear. Yeah. 

Jason Reynolds  32:17

He told me, 'Hey kid, I'm depending on you. I need you to sort of step in, into my shoes, and I need you to manage. Keep your hand on this family.' And I think, you know, to some people, maybe that feels like a tremendous weight, but to me, I felt like a giant. I felt like a giant. I felt like he trusted me, and he understood what my role was in his family. Much like my mother, when she was young, as the middle child, she knew what was expected of her, and she did what needed to be done. And sometimes that means that you sacrifice a bit of yourself, sometimes you die a little bit in order to make some of those things happen. And I recognize that. It's tremendous responsibility and it's a tremendous sacrifice. But, but my dad did what he had to do, and he left here knowing that somebody would manage all of this in his stead. And I'm grateful to have been selected.

Sophie Bearman  33:08

So your life is pretty packed these days, and part of that is you're caring for your aging mom. Tell me about that dynamic.

Jason Reynolds  33:15

I mean, you know, it's the same thing, right? It's Patches. I mean, look, man, we we we should all be so fortunate to have a moment in life to give anything back to these folks who have sacrificed everything for us. My mother gave her life away to make sure that I had the life that I live. She, she turned — whatever her hopes and dreams were, they all went out the window because you had these kids, and she knew that they would need to go further than she could ever even imagine. I live a life that my mother could not — she could not dream a life up like this. She could not imagine. You know, I remember once, when the first time I was in a newspaper or in a magazine or something, my mother could not understand how I got in there. Because she said, 'This is for other people.' I remember when I told her that I wanted, I was thinking about buying a beach house, my mother got so afraid and concerned because she said, 'Jason, you just don't need to take on any extra bills, like you don't need more than one house.' And I said, 'You know how many people have a beach house?' But in her mind, second homes aren't for us. That isn't a thing that she could have ever imagined for herself, let alone her family. And so — or, too, that I've traveled the world 10 times over, and I can tell her what it's like to eat dumplings in Hong Kong. The reward for that, and the tax for my dreams coming true, is me making sure that she has comfort for the rest of her life.

Sophie Bearman  34:40

So you've shown your mom what's possible, along with all the kids all around the world that are picking up one of your books. Jason Reynolds, thank you so much for sharing your seven songs with us.

Jason Reynolds  34:50

I appreciate you. Thank you so much. 

Sophie Bearman  35:15

Life in Seven Songs is a production from the San Francisco Standard. If you enjoyed this listen, you'll definitely want to check out our interview with children's writer Daniel Handler, aka Lemony Snicket. And if you haven't already, please subscribe and like the show. It makes a big difference for us. Our senior producer is Jasmyn Morris. Our producers are Michelle Lanz, who also mixes the show, Tessa Kramer, and Frank Zhou. Our theme music is by Kate Davis and Zubin Hensler, and Clark Miller created our show art. Our music consultant is Sarah Tembeckjian. Executive producers are Griffin Gaffney, Jon Steinberg, and me. As always, you can find this guest's full playlist at sf.news/spotify. I'm Sophie Bearman. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.