Death, Sex, Money – and music: The mixtape to podcaster Anna Sale’s life

Sophie Bearman [00:00:04] Hey guys, this is Sophie Bearman, host of Life in Seven Songs. We are putting together a bonus episode built around your songs and your stories. We want to know what songs moved you. Here's what you can do. Choose one song, record yourself talking about it in a voice memo, tell us what it means to you, tell us a specific story — like when you remember first hearing it, what your reaction was, feel free to sing along, laugh, cry — you know the drill. Send us that voice memo at lifeinsevensongs@sfstandard.com. We will do our best to try to weave it into this upcoming episode. And with that, enjoy the listen. 

Anna Sale [00:00:45] When I thought of the name, Death, Sex & Money, it made me laugh. I was like, 'Do I have the nerve to pitch a show called Death, Sex & Money?' Yes, I do. And then it stuck. 

Sophie Bearman [00:01:06] This is Life in Seven Songs from the San Francisco Standard. I'm your host, Sophie Bearman. This week, my guest is Anna Sale. You may recognize her voice as the host and creator of the hit podcast, Death, Sex & Money, a podcast about 'the things we think about a lot and need to talk about more.' The New York Times described her as having the 'enthusiastically analytical manner of a therapist at happy hour.' She's also the author of a 2022 book called Let's Talk About Hard Things. And throughout a career of helping navigate the most uncomfortable questions and uncertain moments of other people's lives, Anna's had to navigate plenty of her own. So we're flipping the script and putting Anna in the hot seat. Anna Sale, thank you so much for joining me. 

Anna Sale [00:01:55] Oh, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you. 

Sophie Bearman [00:01:56] So I saw on your Substack that you recently bought a karaoke machine?

Anna Sale [00:02:01] Heck yeah. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:02] What inspired that purchase? 

Anna Sale [00:02:04] I can't remember. It was like a kind of lazy Sunday where I needed a little jolt of something and I ended up on the Wirecutter reviews of the best at-home karaoke machines. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:14] As one does. 

Anna Sale [00:02:15] And I was like, I need one of these. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:17] What is your go-to song? 

Anna Sale [00:02:20] Okay, this is not on my list of seven songs. However, it has two microphones and so it's really a fun setup to do II Most Wanted, the Miley Cyrus, Beyoncé song from Cowboy Carter. That's my jam right now with the karaoke machine. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:34] You mentioned two mics, so who takes the second mic when you're singing that? 

Anna Sale [00:02:38] Usually it's my daughters, you know, we all sort of share. We have three singers, two mics, so we all kind of get around it. 

Sophie Bearman [00:02:45] Do your daughters have the same drive to ask big questions?

Anna Sale [00:02:50] I mean, maybe? I mean, they're six and eight, so the questions they ask are — they're just trying to, like, get their bearings. We talk — you know, you talk about why some people don't have homes. You talk about why some are hanging the American flag upside down. They're just like, 'What is happening around me?' And so we talk — there's just ongoing conversation about that. I am certainly so ready to have important parenting conversations, like capitalized Important parenting conversations, but one cool thing that I really am into is — pop music can be such a cool entree to all the things that I want to dig in with them about, like, thank god for Sabrina Carpenter and Taylor Swift and Chappell Roan because there's all these scripts about what you might face or be into or get excited by as a woman coming of age. They're sort of my partners in helping them understand that there's lots of ways to do this thing. 

Sophie Bearman [00:03:47] So Anna, your first song is tied to a memory from your childhood in West Virginia. What's the song and what's the memory? 

Anna Sale [00:03:54] When I was thinking about my life in seven songs, I was like, 'Oh my gosh, this was my very first favorite song.' And the memory I have is being in the backseat of some kind of carpool with a parent and asking them to turn up this song when it came on the radio. And it's Lean on Me by Bill Withers. And as a kid, it was just like, 'I love the way this song makes me feel.' I love groove, I love the soulfulness. This song is just — when I turn it on, it's like going to church. It's like this is a sacred song to gather around. 

Music [00:04:28] [Lean on Me by Bill Withers plays]

Anna Sale [00:04:54] So good, right? And then there's like the syncopated claps, so like even as a white girl, I knew, like, groove. I was like, oh, 'you just call on me, brother.' You know, it's just like so good. And it's really simple. Like, it's such a simply constructed song that just takes you somewhere. And then I come to learn many years later that Bill Withers also grew up in West Virginia, which made me very proud. And then, I got to interview him a few times before he died. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:20] That was the first episode of Death, Sex & Money, right? 

Anna Sale [00:05:23] Yes, the episode was called How to Be a Man with Bill Withers. And when I was starting Death, Sex & Money, I was like, 'Who do I just want to, like, sit with and hear how he thinks about life?' I was like, 'This show doesn't exist yet and it's called Death, Sex & Money. Will you do this interview?' And then he agreed and I'm forever grateful. It was very special. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:40] I just listened to that, and he's like, 'Death, Sex & Money?'

Anna Sale [00:05:44] Yeah. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:44] 'What is this?' 

Anna Sale [00:05:44] He's like, 'you switch it around, that's a story of rock and roll right there.'

Sophie Bearman [00:05:48] Exactly. Sex, money, and death.

Anna Sale [00:05:50] So amazing. 

Sophie Bearman [00:05:50] So good. So you share West Virginia with him. Tell me about your childhood. Paint a picture for me. What did it look like for you? 

Anna Sale [00:05:59] I grew up in the state capital, West Virginia, Charleston. It was a beautiful place. You know, these rolling hills, two rivers in town, the Appalachian mountains. It felt like you were sort of held in place by the geography. To grow up in a place that you know people either ignore or look down on, there's this real sense of camaraderie and pride. Like, one of the things that you learn how to do from a young age is whenever there's someone who is famous who is from West Virginia, you're like — you know they're from West Virginia. 

Sophie Bearman [00:06:31] Mm-hmm. 

Anna Sale [00:06:31] Don Knotts? From West Virginia. Did you know this? Jennifer Garner went to my high school. 

Sophie Bearman [00:06:36] Wow, okay. 

Anna Sale [00:06:37] We just have such pride... 

Sophie Bearman [00:06:39] Yep. 

Anna Sale [00:06:39] ... in the people who are from our place and who have made significant contributions. It also comes with a sort of forlornness of like, most of the people who we were so proud of no longer made their home full time in the state. 

Sophie Bearman [00:06:52] Yeah. 

Anna Sale [00:06:53] And so this sense of needing to go elsewhere, that was part of the dynamic. 

Sophie Bearman [00:06:58] Is that what you felt as well, you knew that you would leave, and then where, where did you go? 

Anna Sale [00:07:01] I always sort of knew I would leave. There are plenty of West Virginians who are lifelong, many generations deep, but I knew I was gonna leave. And I ended up at Stanford University in the fall of 1999, which was quite a transition: to come from a predominantly fossil fuel driven economy that was boom and bust to Silicon Valley before it had even been humbled by the first dot com crash. I was like, 'I don't understand this place. I don't get it. I need, like, a class in, like, how it works to live in a place where you don't immediately think of the limitations of making your dreams come true.' It was like, 'Wow, this is really good for me and it's stretching,' and also I was the one kid in my class from West Virginia.

Sophie Bearman [00:07:46] In the entire year? 

Anna Sale [00:07:47] Yeah, my freshman year. Yeah. 

Sophie Bearman [00:07:49] Wow. 

Anna Sale [00:07:49] So it was — you know, everybody's looking for that thing that's their thing when they're making new friends in the dorm. And I really leaned into the West Virginia-ness big time. 

Sophie Bearman [00:07:58] You shared a song from your freshman year you described as a formative moment. 

Anna Sale [00:08:03] Yes. 

Sophie Bearman [00:08:03] Why that song? 

Anna Sale [00:08:05] Oh my gosh, because this was like — I was, like, trying to figure out, I'm like, 'I live in California now, where do I fit?' And one of the amazing things about moving to the Bay Area was concerts. Your favorite bands, like, came through, which was a new thing. And so this was, like, one of the first concerts that I went up to San Francisco for and it was Luscious Jackson. And I was always like a mixtape person and they were always on my mixtapes, this song, Here, in particular. And seeing them in San Francisco — I think it was Halloween night, so it was like, people were out, everything was turned on. And I had a fake ID, so I also was really enjoying myself. And my memory of that show is they called people up to dance on stage with them. And somehow, there I was, dancing on stage with Luscious Jackson in San Fransisco. And it was this moment of like, 'Oh my gosh, I am in a new era. This rules.'

Music [00:09:07] [Here by Luscious Jackson plays]

Anna Sale [00:09:29] Get on the floor / let's dance a little more. / Get on the floor / let's dance a little more. / Get on the floor / let's dance a little more. / Get on the floor. 

Sophie Bearman [00:09:36] Was that like you to flaunt it all on stage?

Anna Sale [00:09:39] I don't know, I was at that stage of life where I didn't even know what I was like. But I was, like, 'I'm into this.' 

Sophie Bearman [00:09:45] So your next song jumps ahead a few years, I think towards the end of college. What's the story behind this song? 

Anna Sale [00:09:51] Okay, so this jumps forward. It's a similar vibe. It was another moment when, like, a chapter was ending and it felt like a new opening. I was just finishing college and I remember driving up all the way up to Berkeley, where I live now, and going to my first show at the Greek. 

Sophie Bearman [00:10:11] And you have a funny story about driving to the Greek on your way to this concert?

Anna Sale [00:10:17] Yes, it's another incredible memory that was just like, 'life is amazing. You never know what's gonna happen.' We were on our way up and we were driving, windows down, really doing our summer trip to the Greek. And the radio was on and it was Nelly's Hot in Here. And we roll to this stoplight and this big SUV stops right next to us, also blasting Nelly's Hot in Here. And we look over and we kind of nod to the driver. And then both my friend and I who are in the front seat, we're like, 'That's Samuel L. Jackson. That's Samuel Jackson!' Then we wave and he waves and then the green light and then we just roll on. It was just like, 'oh!' 

Sophie Bearman [00:11:02] So amazing. 

Anna Sale [00:11:02] To get to like, have a moment with the radio, with Nelly's Hot in Here with Samuel L. Jackson. 

Sophie Bearman [00:11:09] Okay, but Nelly's Hot In Here is actually not your third song. So tell me about this concert at the Greek. 

Anna Sale [00:11:15] It was this whole lineup that was incredible. It was Cake, I think it was De La Soul, and The Flaming Lips were playing. And it's seared in my memory. When they played the song, Do You Realize??, there were these plastic giant balls that they had dancers inside of. So it was like this real sort of psychedelic stage show and everybody's singing the song along with The Flaming Lips. And it was just transcendent. 

Music [00:11:46] [Do You Realize?? by The Flaming Lips plays]

Sophie Bearman [00:11:51] This one makes me emotional. I don't know why. 

Anna Sale [00:11:53] It's so, it's like...

Music [00:11:54] [Do You Realize?? by The Flaming Lips plays] 

Sophie Bearman [00:11:58] 'You know, someday we'll die.' Yeah, I'm thinking about the lyrics. I mean, they feel so Death, Sex & Money, right? Like, do you realize we're floating in space? Happiness makes you cry. Did you have any inkling at that point that you were interested in exploring those kinds of big life questions? 

Anna Sale [00:12:19] Not literally, because I didn't know what the heck I was going to do. I was a history major in college. So I was like, 'What is my way?' I had no idea. But I have found, you know, now that I'm 44 and can look back at what songs did I always want to play, did I want to share with people, they're really sort of instructive and showing like, 'Anna, you've been the same person all along.' I think that's what's so cool about when you think about your favorite songs, the comfort that comes from knowing, like, even though there's so many moments in life when you don't quite know what — what's gonna happen next, you feel stuck, you feel like it's all on you to figure out the next big decision, and then looking back, you're like, 'Oh no, there's like a through line here that's pretty clear about what I care about, what moves me,' and I think that that song is such an example of that — such a literal example of that — a song that is about, like, 'What's it all about, and let's talk about what's all about, together.' You know, that's basically what my journalism career has become. 

Sophie Bearman [00:13:16] So what was your path to WNYC and eventually creating and hosting Death, Sex & Money? 

Anna Sale [00:13:23] It was, you know, a little bit meandering. But I was a year out of school. My first job was I was an organizer for the Sierra Club. And I was like, 'I like parts of this job, which are talking to people, getting out.' But it didn't quite feel like the right fit. So I applied to law school, like many people who are Type A and they don't know what to do. And so my resume was all updated when a job came open at the public radio station in my hometown in Charleston, West Virginia. That led to a period of many years of getting to do a mix of all sorts of reporting, and then I got a little bit tired of covering politics. And I was kind of trying to figure out if I could make up my dream of what kind of journalism I could do. I sort of tried to combine the best parts of getting talk to people about what they cared about, what was, you know, making their life hard — which was part of my political reporting when I covered campaigns — and then making that the point, not making the point of the journalism, like, 'So this candidate is going to win the... 

Sophie Bearman [00:14:25] Yeah.

Anna Sale [00:14:25] ... New York City mayor's race.' So I pitched that to WNYC at a time when podcasting was starting to be a way that people were thinking about potential growth and reaching new audiences and young people. So they gave me a shot.

Sophie Bearman [00:14:40] How did you come up with Death, Sex & Money? Is that a reference to anything or just the big three? 

Anna Sale [00:14:47] When I was thinking, like, 'Uh, how do I make a show that's a little bit like, basically, like — do you realize, like, I want to make a show that's about the stuff that really, really, really, really matters, that we talk around, and also not name it like, Here's What Matters. Instead make it a little bit — have an edge.' And so when I thought of the name Death, Sex & Money, it made me laugh. And then I realized that it was the same initials as the DSM-5, which is the big book of psychiatric disorders. 

Sophie Bearman [00:15:12] Yeah. 

Anna Sale [00:15:13] And that also made me laugh. And so, I was like, 'Do I have the nerve to pitch a show called Death, Sex & Money? Yes, I do.' And then it stuck. 

Sophie Bearman [00:15:24] It's time for a quick break, but when we come back, Anna's faced with her own set of tough questions. Stay with us. 

Sophie Bearman [00:15:48] So, tell me about your next song, Side of the Road, by Lucinda Williams. 

Anna Sale [00:15:55] Ugh, god. This is a song that just makes me cry. Um, so the other thing that was going on when I was coming up with Death, Sex & Money as a concept is, like, I had hit my first real ditch of young adulthood where how I thought my life was gonna go ended up not being how it went. I was in this relationship for most of my 20s. I got married, moved to New York, and then the marriage fell apart after about three years. We were married for almost four years. It was just this time of 'Who am I? What do I value?' I thought that I was the kind of person that really stuck with things and commitment was really important and family was really important and so I had all sorts of shame and just didn't really know what kind of woman I was. And this song by Lucinda Williams is from the perspective of a woman who's in a relationship and she needs to pull off to the side of the road just to feel what it is to be just with herself. 

Music [00:16:57] [Side of the Road by Luncinda Williams plays]

Sophie Bearman [00:17:23] Ugh. 

Anna Sale [00:17:23] God Bless Lucinda. It's just a beautiful song because it gets at both the ways women can get all tangled up and trying to please all sorts of people all at once. And also she gives us permission to be like, 'hang on, I need a minute to just sort through how I feel.' 

Sophie Bearman [00:17:42] That's just — such a relatable feeling about relationships, even ones that are working, honestly. It's just like... 

Anna Sale [00:17:46] Yeah. 

Sophie Bearman [00:17:46] I wanna know you're there, but I — I need to be alone for a minute or two. 

Anna Sale [00:17:49] Yeah. And also, it's good, Luc — that's fine. You know, like, I think for me, it took some learning that true love wasn't codependence. 

Sophie Bearman [00:17:59] I know there's a million things that can rupture a relationship, but what was going on that led to the end of that marriage? 

Anna Sale [00:18:06] It was a combination of, like, a lot of things. It was what happens when somebody you really love, you've come to the end of the line with when it makes sense to live your lives together. 

Sophie Bearman [00:18:15] Yeah. 

Anna Sale [00:18:16] You know, we fell in love when we were both figuring out who we were and we were sort of compatriots in that. We had the same taste, which matters a lot when you're in your 20s, like just like we wanted to eat the same food and go to the same concerts and we loved the same filmmakers and we — we were just like teammates. And then at a certain point, my ex, he went to a film school, and that's what brought me to New York. So I have a lot to be grateful for that I wouldn't have moved to New York City had he not pushed us. You know, it sort of became that sense of like, 'Oh, wait, what you want and what I want aren't matching up.' And we're having all of these skirmishes and battles around little things because the big things aren't the same anymore. 

Sophie Bearman [00:18:59] Your next song, it's If I Needed You by Townes Van Zandt. Why does this song make the list? 

Anna Sale [00:19:06] This is another love story for me, another love song. This song is the song I walked down the aisle to when I got married to my husband Arthur. We met soon after I was divorced and we had a period of kind of sorting through how that was gonna work, cause he's a wildlife ecologist and I was a radio reporter in New York City. So it was like, 'How are we gonna do this?' Um, so that took a bit to sort out. We eventually did, with some tumult. I was at a point in my life in my early 30s, becoming mid-30s. I knew I wanted to be a mom. So I was like, 'What's the vision, dude? Like we got to have a vision.' And it took us a bit to figure it out. And then we kind of did figure it out and we figured out we wanted to get married. And I was, like, a culture vulture, mixtape person my whole life. My husband, Arthur, spent a lot of time in nature and, like, has four favorite bands, basically. He's less up on what's happening, the musical trends, but this was a song that we both just totally loved. 

Music [00:20:15] [If I Needed You by Townes Van Zandt plays]

Anna Sale [00:20:41] It's so sweet, like two people figuring out, 'if I needed you, would you come to me?' It's figuring out — what's the, the feeling of our particular vulnerability with each other and what we need from each other and how we're going to show up for each other. That's what it's about. It's like, 'will you come me if I need you?' And for us, that was, like, what walking down the aisle was, is like, 'yes, that's the decision we're making.' Also, I just love the like pedal steel. I love the way that song is produced. I love the honky-tonk feel of it. And it's a straight guy being totally vulnerable. Like, you know, you don't hear enough of that. 

Sophie Bearman [00:21:18] So, Arthur, he's a wildlife ecologist. You host Death, Sex & Money. Is he open to talking about big things like that? 

Anna Sale [00:21:26] Yeah, that was the thing that really kept me in it when I would have like, 'I don't understand the, like, structure here.' Like the thing was so incredible about who he is as a person is he's very not afraid to say how he feels. He wants to understand how I feel. When there's conflict, he wants to go at it. So it felt 'I can really dig in with this person and I'm not gonna scare him off. I don't have to package my feelings in order for him to be able to hear them.' So yeah, that was like, 'oh, you can — you can handle it.' And that's what — there's this like solidness, which I hear in the, If I Needed You song, it's like, it presumes that you're two people who are standing on your own two feet. But there might be a moment where if I needed you, would you come to me? And if you need me, I'll come to you. But it's not saying like, 'Oh my gosh, if we're not totally wrapped up with each other all the time, I'm gonna die.' 

Sophie Bearman [00:22:21] Your next song is tied to a big moment of change that I believe came around 2015, 2016. It's Que Sera Sera, which is a very popular song on this show, but I believe you picked a different version. 

Anna Sale [00:22:33] Do people pick the Doris Day version? 

Sophie Bearman [00:22:35] They do. 

Anna Sale [00:22:36] What?! 

Sophie Bearman [00:22:36] I think it might be our number one song. 

Anna Sale [00:22:39] So interesting. Okay, the very best, most superior version of the production of this song is the Sly and the Family Stone version, because it just slaps, it's so good. 

Sophie Bearman [00:22:50] So why'd you choose this one? 

Anna Sale [00:22:52] I have always loved this song. I remember my older sister introducing it to me when I was young and being like, 'This is one of my favorite songs.' And then it kind of came back in a big way, 2016. I'm like newly married, I get pregnant, right when my husband, Arthur, finds out that he's got this job at UC Berkeley, which is amazing. So we're gonna move across the country from New York City. But it was like a lot at once 'cause then I was like, 'Okay, first things first. Where are we having this baby?' Because she was due right when we were basically gonna be moving. So we had to decide if we were having this baby in New York City, if we were gonna have the baby in California, where are you gonna live in California? All this stuff. So it was a lot, a lot to sort through. And the song, Que Sera Sera, is just about the passage of time. It's about asking people for help. And also that we only have so much control, because Que Sera Sera whatever will be, will be. 

Music [00:23:51] [Que Sera Sera by Sly and the Family Stone plays]

Anna Sale [00:23:54] Wow. 

Music [00:23:54] [Que Sera Sera by Sly and the Family Stone plays] 

Anna Sale [00:24:19] I mean, it's just like, ugh. It's a song that makes me feel things. 

Sophie Bearman [00:24:23] It's a very different song than the... 

Anna Sale [00:24:25] Yes.

Sophie Bearman [00:24:25] ...Doris Day one. But the sentiment, I mean, we know why it's picked, you know? 

Anna Sale [00:24:30] Yeah. So all this is happening 2016. And I am hosting a live show at the Brooklyn Academy of Music. And we end up booking Lisa Fischer, who's this incredible singer. She's our musical guest. I tell a story about the meaning of this song to me, to the audience. And we close the show. And she sings this song. And she, like, sidles up to me. And I have this photograph in my office still. She's leaning into me. I'm leaning into her. I have a big baby bump. And we're just like. Whatever will be will be, but like, it's another just like perfect moment. 

Sophie Bearman [00:25:09] Oh, that's beautiful. So I take it, you obviously moved to Berkeley. You have your daughter. Where is your child born? 

Anna Sale [00:25:18] She was born halfway between New York and, uh, California — we decided to have her in Wyoming. 

Sophie Bearman [00:25:23] Oh my gosh. 

Anna Sale [00:25:24] Where I took maternity leave because we didn't have a house. We didn't know where we were gonna live in Berkeley. 

Sophie Bearman [00:25:29] For a second, I thought you meant like literally in transit or something. I was like, that is a wild story. So your last song is Feels Good by the band Tony! Toni! Toné! which includes D'Wayne Wiggins. He was actually one of the first people I interviewed for this show. 

Anna Sale [00:25:46] I remember. I listened to that episode. 

Sophie Bearman [00:25:48] Yeah. It's a wonderful episode. He's recently passed away in March this year. But you said you loved the song as a kid. It's also connected to a more recent memory. So tell me the whole story. 

Anna Sale [00:25:59] I mean, this is another song that was, like, one of my go-to mixtape songs growing up. You know, when you're like, 'I need a song that's just gonna like change the vibe in the room to positive, it's not even like party vibe. It's like, let's have a moment of gratitude, you know?' And I've loved this song. And then fast forward to early 2024, there was this existential moment for my work life where Death, Sex & Money was cut from the budget at WNYC. We didn't know if it was gonna keep going. We ended up finding a new home at Slate, where I work now. And we had had this funeral for the show when we didn't know what was gonna happen. And then when we came — 'We're coming back,' I was like, 'Oh my gosh, we can have a revival.' So we — I got to work with KQED and they had a live event that they hosted for us in their live event space. And again, that question of like, 'Who is the right musical guest for a revival?' And I was like, 'Oh my gosh, D'Wayne Wiggins. He's still based in Oakland.' I asked him if he would put together a band to be our live band for the event. And he said 'Yes.' He was a guest during the live show. I got to meet him. He talked about, like, growing up in Oakland and the musical influences, including Sly and the Family Stone, playing in the park near his house, like, so many full circle things. And then I get to be on stage ending this live event and watching Feels Good being played live by D'Wayne Wiggins. 

Music [00:27:32] [Feels Good by Tony! Toni! Toné! plays] 

Anna Sale [00:27:53] Baby! 

Sophie Bearman [00:27:59] Were you dancing on stage to this one? 

Anna Sale [00:28:00] Yes. Rhythm feels good. 

Sophie Bearman [00:28:02] Yeah. 

Anna Sale [00:28:03] You know. The whole audience stood up. It was just like, ah, amazing. So perfect. And I got to have that moment before he was sick, before Oakland had to say goodbye to him. And now I hear that song. And that's what it taps into. It's like sometimes you don't know what's going to happen. A lot of pain is involved in living this life. And also, there's some moments where it feels good. 

Sophie Bearman [00:28:26] Anna, is there anything that stands out to you about these songs and moments that you've chosen, like any thread between them? 

Anna Sale [00:28:35] I mean, one thing I notice is, uh, I like songs that feel a little bit like you're a little bit pressing on a bruise and then you have this release. You know, these are, like, songs that are about real stuff and real feelings and that's a little on the nose for what my taste is as a journalist, but then there's also this cool overarching feeling of, like, music is also the thing that you just have to turn to when there's not answers. 

Sophie Bearman [00:29:05] Anna, talking to you, it strikes me that there have been some moments of uncertainty in your journey, you know, whether it's where you should be or if a decision you made was the right one. And I'm curious, how has hosting Death, Sex & Money for a decade taught you about how we all navigate those moments? 

Anna Sale [00:29:25] I think the show started with this real sense of 'I need to collect as much information from as many guides as I can find so that I am really making the most informed choices possible,' right? This sense of arming myself with enough wisdom to be able to take on life and to not feel stuck or scared when I was in a moment when I didn't know what was gonna happen. And the thing that — when you talk to people about how life unfolds for each of them, you learn that there is no outrunning moments of stuckness or uncertainty. That's what it's all about, is like remembering that each of us are in our little lane with our own particular challenges, but when you have a moment to lift up your eyes and look around and feel in community and, and like you can help each other, and that it's not all about you, that's what its about. 

Sophie Bearman [00:30:22] Anna Sale, thank you so much for joining me and sharing your seven songs. 

Anna Sale [00:30:27] Sure. Thanks for inviting me. I'm so excited to hear this mixtape. How fun. 

Sophie Bearman [00:30:31] This was so fun. 

Anna Sale [00:30:32] Such a cool way in to getting to know people. 

Sophie Bearman [00:30:58] Life in Seven Songs is a production from the San Francisco Standard. If you wanna hear from another guest who's made it their life mission to ask the tough questions, check out our episode with comedian W. Kamau Bell. And if you haven't already, please subscribe and like the show. It makes a big difference for us. Our senior producer is Jasmyn Morris. Our producers are Michelle Lanz — she also mixes the show — and Tessa Kramer. Our theme music is by Kate Davis and Zubin Hensler, and Clark Miller created our show art. Our music consultant is Sarah Tembeckjian. Executive producers are Griffin Gaffney, Jon Steinberg, and me. You can find this guest's full playlist at sf.news/spotify. You can listen to every song in full there. I'm Sophie Bearman. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.